Response to Vegetational Fatherhood

When I first read the Vegetational Fatherhood by Mynona, I was surprised it was considered fairy tale because it is not like the other tales I have read. It is one of the most bizarre and random stories I have read yet. However, upon further consideration, I found many of the fairy tale elements in the story, and characteristics of other fairy tales we have read.

One of my first reactions to the story was that it reminded my of the Virgin Mary, because of the way the woman became pregnant. My second reaction was that some elements of this story reminded me of Snow White. First, the woman has a daughter who is more beautiful than she is, and she becomes more and more beautiful with each day. Second, the daughter's looks are compared to a flower. She has soft, pink skin, green eyes, a rose petal shaped birthmark, and silver glistening hair. In Snow White, the daughter's looks are described in a similar way, as she is said to be white as snow, red as blood, and black as ebony wood. Finally, both Snow White and the daughter in this story attract many suitors as a result of their beauty.

Based on the content of this tale, I thought about its intended audience. I cannot imagine this being read to a child. Perhaps it was written as entertainment and amusement for adults, according to Shavit's concept of childhood.

Vegetational Fatherhood

I think this story is a cautionary tale about lying to a partner in marriage. At first glance, I initially felt that this was another story like Blackbeard, which casts a bad light on falling for somebody "different" (with the racist overtones of the time), but attempted to bury it with the appearance and sweetness of flowers.
However, I thought about it further and realized that the murder is brought about because the husband does not know about the nightly metamorphosis. Had she or her mother been honest with the husband, the murder would have been prevented.
Also, I noticed the reference to a reverse "Lucia di Lammermoor". I looked this up, and found out that it is an opera about forbidden love that ends with Lucia going hysterical after her wedding and killing her husband. The opera itself seems to be about marrying people for the wrong reasons and the consequences that it brings about, so I think this reference strengthens the idea.

Vegetational Fatherhood and Science 4/7

It is interesting what the role of science plays in the tale Vegetational Fatherhood. While the beginning of the tale is decidedly unscientific with a personified rose and the girl who turns into a rosebush each night after reaching puberty, the end of the story relies heavily on the idea of scientific evidence. Dr. Rosenberger and the girl's mother are deemed insane because they claim an event that is beyond the realm of scientific understanding. Dr. Rosenberger is described as a 'learned man of science' and astonishes all by supporting the mother's claims that the girl transformed into a rosebush each night. It is only after an autopsy, a scientific procedure, is performed that something strange is considered. However, it is not magic but horrific experiments by Dr. Rosenberger, the anatomist, that are thought possible by the general public.

Science both conceals and explains the events of the story. Science hides the actual event of animal-plant transformation that occurred from the public by making it seem impossible. Science, in turn, reveals that something strange was going on but too late to help Dr. Rosenberger or the girl's mother, and the evidence is misinterpreted anyway. Science in the story seems to become a hindrance to the truth not the enlightening quest for knowledge that it is usually thought to be.

Assignment: 7 April 2009

Please write an interpretation of/response to “The Vegetational Fatherhood.” Don't forget to post comments by Wednesday.

Wackenroder

Wackenroder’s “A Wondrous Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint” is a fairy tale because it has some of the elements we discussed in class like magic, transformation, undefined setting, and a character type that is not developed. The main character goes through a struggle (a magic spell that has him always spinning the wheel and feeling that something is missing), then he hears the music and is transformed into a spirit. It is, more specifically, a Kunstmarchen because it is literary and artistic, and written by people who want to create a polished literary form. The painstakingly detailed descriptions and use of metaphors are also representative of a Kunstmarchen.

I believe that the power evoked by music is not also accessible to language. The experiences you have when you listen to music cannot be achieved through poetic language, as I found while reading Wackenroder’s tale. Just reading the song did not move me much, although I’m positive if I heard it, it would make much more of an impact. Based on personal experience, I think that language merely points to music.

Wackenroder 3/31

I feel that in Wackenroder's tale, language, in the form of lyrics in the lovers' song, merely points to the magic of the music. The music seemed to affect the saint more than the actual words. The saint is also called the "genius of love and music" not music and language. The fact that Wackenroder used language to describe the magic of music shows that language is a tool to describe the power of music not the actual magic holder in Wackenroder's story.

The story contains many fairy tale elements. The existence of a wild man that transforms into something greater is a common element in fairy tales like "Iron Hans." The setting of a remote cave by water uses nature as a character in much the same way that forests and rivers act as almost sentient beings transforming characters in other fairy tales. The more specific kunstmarchen elements are the specification of the Orient locale, which brings exoticism and Romanticism into the story, and the ambiguous ending. While the lovers are united, the saint is transformed into a spiritual being that has unspecified powers. The ending is not unhappy but it is not altogether joyous either. This is a divergence from fairy tales in the oral tradition that usually had clearly defined happy conclusions.
Audra Crosby

On Poetry and Music - March 31st

In many ways, music is just the ultimate form of poetic language. It is universal, and easily understood by all. All emotions can be expressed, while the effectiveness lies in the skill of the arrangement. If we are to think of the musical scale as almost everyone knows it, we can easily think of "Do Re Mi". "Do Re Mi" is a neat summation of the link between music and language. Here, we have nonsense syllables that are not exclusive to any one language, yet represent so much by their juxtaposition.
I had the great luck of going to an international drum camp while I was in high school. There, I was able to see a performance by an Indian Tabla master. To Indian drummers, music is learned as a separate language, with its own "grammar". Drum hits and rhythms are assigned syllables, like "ta" and "ki". To illustrate this, the drummer spoke in this language, and then performed it back on the drum. As he spoke, his sentences gained more and more complexity, but it was clear that it was not just gibberish.
While this establishes the clear link between music and language, music and poetry are separated by one simple fact: music is a physical art. Poetry is entirely a mental and emotional process, while music also adds the aspect of performance to the mix. Furthermore, poetry is human invention. While music is natural and primal, poetry is the product of representing music with language.
I think that in Wackenroder's story, the saint's nudity illustrates that the author was aware of this link between the body and music, while also driving down the point that music is part of our natural being. He also calls this character a "saint," I think not only to illustrate the perfection that is associated with music, but also so that we do not mistakenly think that this nude character is a beast.

As for the story itself, I feel that it is a fairy tale for two reasons: there is a major, supernatural transformation at the end, and the story is entirely about an outsider who is superior to the society that doesn't understand him.

Sahil Patel - March 31st

I think music and poetic language can go hand-in-hand a lot of times. There is a rhythmic quality to both of them that evokes emotions, imagery, and entertains on many levels. However, while both music and poetic language can be complementary and are very similar, it does not mean they can not be mutually exclusive. Poetic language is enhanced by the use of music just as music can be enhance by poetry. However, there are certain qualities specifically belonging to music - wordless rhythms and sounds - that make it more unique when compared to poetry. Poetry can be engaging, intelligent, and powerful. However, I think emotive power music can evoke is greater. Poetic language can definitely complement and aid the music, however I believe language points more towards music than be on the same plane as music.

Wackenroder's story has several elements similar to a fairy tale. It involves a character that is fantastical and magical to say the least. Furthermore, there is a redemptive structure to the narrative in the sense that the main character, after going through prolonged and severe hardships finally is able to be freed from his shackles. However, I believe the fairy tale elements of "A Wondrous Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint" basically end there. It is definitely more of a Kunstmarchen in the sense that it is a more sophisticated story that utilizes a lot more metaphors and imagery. Furthermore, this tale is definitely not intended exclusively for children - in fact I highly doubt it is meant for children it all. The sophisticated and advanced writing - and the inclusion of abstract imagery and metaphors, specifically the importance of the "wheel" - points towards the audience being adults.

Assignment: 31 March 2009

Please consider the Wackenroder text, “A Wondrous Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint.”

• What is the relationship between music and poetic language? Is the power evoked by music also accessible to language? Or does language merely point to music?
• Also, consider how Wackenroder’s story is a fairy tale. What elements are fairy-tale-like? And what makes it, more specifically, a Kunstmärchen?

Heroine

In both of the Grimms' tales ("Fitcher's Bird" and "The Robber Bridegroom"), the heroine ends up in her predicament accidentally. In "Fitcher's Bird," a sorcerer goes to town, and captures the girls one by one. In "The Robber Bridegroom," the heroine is promised in marriage.
Their reactions are what distinguish them. In "Fitcher's Bird," all three women are disobedient (And rightfully so, as they're thrown inside of a bread basket). However, the third one plans ahead of her disobedience, and is successful.
In "The Robber Bridegroom," the heroine is harder to read. On one hand, she is disobedient, as she ignores the voice of the forest. However, she is obedient by going through with the marriage on her father's orders. It seems like her virtue, like many fairy tale heroines, is her silence. Because she remains silent while witnessing the murder, the evidence is practically handed to her (no pun intended), and she comes out successful.

Elements of Horror 3/14

Elements of horror:
The amount of dismemberment and intensity of the violence certainly changed from story to story. In the original Perrault, the violence occurred in the past. While there is a large pool of blood, the murders themselves are not described. However, in the Grimms' "Fitcher's Bird," there is a graphic decapitation followed by dismemberment and blood spill. In the Grimms' "Robber Bridegroom," a girl is dismembered, covered in salt, and served to eat, while in "Mr. Fox," the girl's hand is sliced off.
I think it is important to note that the violence is used as much for plot as for sensationalism. In all of the non-Perrault stories, the dismembered body parts act as messages to the real heroine of each tale. The Perrault version actually suffers without the violence, as the plot situation is handled with a single awkward sentence: "(these were all the women Bluebeard had married and then murdered one after another)". By "seeing" the violence instead of hearing about it in past tense, the Bluebeard-type villain becomes far more evil.

Heroine

In the Brothers Grimm’s version “The Robber Bridegroom,” the heroine’s character is a celebration of self-preservation and cleverness. The entire story, the girl knew that there was something strange about her suitor, and did not trust him at all. She tried to make excuses not to visit him, but to no avail. Forced into visiting, the girl “filled her pockets with peas and lentils to mark the way,” much like Hansel and Gretel. This was very clever because “the wind had scattered the ashes, but the peas and lentils had sprouted and showed the way in the moonlight.” She is also clever to take the finger with the ring on it as proof of the robber's murder. Upon showing it, the robber and his group "were executed for their dreadful deeds."

Elements of Horror

The most common element of horror that I found in the readings was a forbidden room with bloody dead bodies in it. I found this element in “The Seven Wives of Bluebeard,” “Fitcher’s Bird,” “Bluebeard,” and “Mr. Fox.” In most of these stories, Bluebeard’s wives, or soon-to-be wives, are given keys to the house but forbidden to enter a certain area. The women are too curious to obey, enter the room and see Bluebeard’s past wives chopped up into little pieces. This element startles the audience and helps move the plot along, because the women then must be punished for their disobedience.
Another element which I noticed in “The Robber’s Bridegroom” and “Mr. Fox” was that a male figure would have a female’s body, mutilate it, and chop off their finger to get a ring. I think this element is to startle the audience, elaborate the story, and help move the plot. After the female figure shows the finger with the ring to everyone, the male is then killed.
The final horror element was from “Bluebeard’s Ghost,” and it was the ghost coming out of the grave. It helped Mrs. Bluebeard select her future husband, because it turned out that Mr. Bluebeard was not coming out of his grave, but was one of her suitors posing as the ghost. It startled the audience and helped move the plot along.

Heroine Representation 3/24

In the story "Bluebeard's Ghost" it is interesting that the heroine, or Bluebeard's widow, presents herself as disobedient. When speaking on Bluebeard's sharpening his knife and yelling at her to come down from the tower, Mrs. Bluebeard says, "'Merely to punish me for my curiosity--the dear, good, kind, excellent creature!'" (Zipes 339). She does not blame Bluebeard, but instead blames herself and others (her sister Anne) for his death. In this story, she is presented not as courageous, but as a woman who still relies on her dead husband who might have been trying to kill her. In the end, Mrs. B. and Anne even believe that Bluebeard had shown "her future husband" to Mrs. B. (353). It is Anne's love interest, Ensign Trippet, that saves Mrs. B. and Anne from making the mistake of listening to Bluebeard's "ghost" and marrying Mr. Sly. As the story goes, "For the first time in her [Mrs. B's] life, she had not a word to say. Sister Anne, too, was dumb with terror" in the graveyard. Tom Trippet saves them when the women can't save themselves.

Audra Crosby

Elements of Horror in Bluebeard 3/24

The first element of horror that I want to focus on is the finger falling in the girl's lap while she hides from her betrothed. At this moment in the story, the heroine is in danger of being discovered, and the finger falling into her lap heightens the drama of the murder scene for the already tense audience. This particular circumstance happens only in "The Robber Bridegroom" and "Mr. Fox" but the intent of the event, risk of discovery, occurs in several of the stories, such as in "Bluebeard's Egg" when Sally moves away from the window so Ed won't see that she has been watching him and in all the stories (Perrault's "Bluebeard" and Grimms' "Fitcher's Bird") where a woman attempts to hide the fact that she entered the room by cleaning the key/egg. The element of horror seems to be the anticipation of discovery and not the actual bloody body parts or keys.

The second element of horror is the forbidden room. This element occurs in some form in almost all the stories we read. In "Bluebeard", "Fitcher's Bird", and "The Seven Wives of Bluebeard", it is an actual room that the women are forbidden or implored not to enter. In "The Robber's Bridegroom" and "Mr. Fox" it is the villain's entire house, and in "Bluebeard's Egg", it is Ed's mind and inner thoughts. Without the forbidden room there would be no story. It is the prohibition that forms the entire plot of the fairy tales. If the women did not enter the room, they would never discover Bluebeard's secrets, and he, therefore, would have no justification or cause to punish them.

Audra Crosby

Assignment: 24 March 2009

Since class had to be cut short today, there will be two posts for this evening.

Question 1: Compare the elements of horror in the various versions of Bluebeard that you read for today. Please name the elements you are comparing and discuss how they function in the story. Do they help move the plot along? Elaborate the story? Startle the audience? etc.

Question 2: Tatar offers two readings of the heroine’s character: either as a celebration of self-preservation and cleverness or as a disobedient female. Using a version other than the Perrault, consider how the heroine gets presented. Use quotes to support your reading.

Again, please post two separate entries by midnight tonight.

DEFA "Devil"

I apologize for the lateness of this post. I still had my final two midterms this week, and didn't get a chance to watch this until now.

The whole movie felt like a sub-par Monty Python rip-off. It focused on silly voices that weren't silly, and random humor that wasn't humorous. First off, let's talk about the scene where he swordfights the dog about 40 minutes into it. What is this scene trying to accomplish?

Fifty-five minutes in: "That's how a woman should be. Gentle and quiet." This line works very well as a brief analysis of women's roles in fairy tales, but is played right before the hero uses his ridiculous grandma voice.

I like that the devil was more human, like in the story, but I couldn't tell if that was the director's vision or the make-up budget. The fact that their confrontation ends in a pillow fight puts it farther into question. There are too many slapstick scenes like this or where he's trying to ride away on his horse where the movie just devolves into cut-rate slapstick with fast music.

Sahil Patel - March 17th Assignment

This movie is absolutely ridiculous. The target audience for this film most definitely appears to be children. The film is highly amusing and utilizes physical/slapstick comedy to great effect in overtly ridiculous and funny situations. There are a lot of physical gags that would make any child scream in laughter. For example, in the very beginning, the flying hammers scene, and the ones preceding and following it, hav numerous components of physical humor. There is a man who goes crazy wondering why the hammers flew so high into the air. The main character jumps into a basket to avoid being hit by one. Once the hammers destroy the roof, everyone is covered in debris. In the following scene, when a villager asks the official why he is collecting the money, there is another character whose entire purpose is to echo, with a unique voice, everything the official says - with greater emphasis. Later on in the film, when the villagers are taunting and threatening the official, the main character tries to escape by hiding in a barrel and dragging himself slowly through the room. The site of a moving barrel, and the reactions of a couple of men who notice this are both incredulous and ridiculous - a great gag to make children laugh.

Furthermore, the facial expressions and acting style of all the actors, especially the main character, are extremely over the top. There is no subtlety in their portrayal of the characters and that is simply because the target audience for the film, children, does not care too much for subtlety. As I mentioned earlier, one character almost goes berserk because the hammers flew too high into the air and another chooses to repeat everything an official says. If they are angry, the audience will know they are angry - to comic effect. The same goes for all of the basic emotions represented within the film. Childrens' films are generally known for their over-the-top portrayals of characters and plot. "The Devil's Three Golden Hairs" fits perfectly into this mold of children's entertainment.

March 17 Assignment

The DEFA versions of "Snow White" and "The Devil with the Three Golden Hairs" were similar in acting forms. Both had stilted and outrageous acting styles. However, it seemed that "The Devil with the Three Golden Hairs" was even more outlandish in style that "Snow White". Also, the "Snow White" version seemed to follow the story line of the original Brothers Grimm more closely than "The Devil with the Three Golden Hairs" did. "The Devil with the Three Golden Hairs" had random storylines and additions (like the castle being deep underground and the existence of the robber tax) that were not in the German literary tale.
Audra Crosby

Assignment: 17 March 2009

This week we are going by the normal schedule, so please post by Tuesday at midnight and leave two comments by Wednesday night.

Prompt: Respond to the film “The Devil’s Three Golden Hairs” (DEFA). You may wish to consider one (or more) of the following:

• Target audience
• How it uses the medium specifically in order to tell its version of the story
• Comparison to the DEFA version of “Snow White”

Loving looks vs. marriage

One difference that I noticed between de Beaumont’s version and Cocteau’s film was act which was required for the Beast to turn into a handsome prince. In Cocteau’s film, someone must give the Beast a loving look for him to transform. This is interesting because the Beast tells Beauty not to look him in the eye when she firs enters the castle. On the other hand, in de Beaumont’s tale, which reminds me a lot of the Disney movie, someone must promise the Beast their hand in marriage for him to transform. When I researched the dates of these two pieces, I found that Beaumont’s version had to be written sometime in the 1700s, while the film came out in 1946. I may be over-analyzing this, but perhaps the change in the story reflects changing beliefs of the times. Like Shavit’s argument that fairy tales reflect the concept of childhood, I would like to suggest that perhaps fairy tales also can reflect the status of marriage in a culture.

Sahil Patel - Beauty and the Beast

While the inclusion of the Avenant character is an intriguing element in the film that does not occur in de Beaumont's written version of Beauty and the Beast, I think the different depictions of the castle/mansion is the most interesting difference. In the written story by de Beaumont, the castle is depicted in a much more positive light. It is described as a beautiful castle with gardens and flowers on the outside and ornate rooms inside. The castle is basically portrayed as a seemingly deserted palatial residence. However, in the movie there is a stark difference. The castle is extremely dark and seems to be very dangerous. There is almost no light. There are chandeliers that are held up by moving hands. Heads moving around and looking at the father. The entire place is very dark, ominous, and creepy - a stark opposite from the depiction in the book. It basically looks like the perfect setting for a horror movie or death scene. Furthermore, the music played during the scene where the father finds the castle only further helps the dark presence of the building. I think all of the differences in the film version of the story when compared to the written version serves to further establish the Beast character in a negative light. In de Beaumont's version, he is ugly, but he is kind and generous and the castle is opulent. However, Cocteau utilizes the film medium to further depict the original negative connotations inherent in the Beast character. No one would want to live there. So the sacrifice that Belle makes is much more vivid, much more tangible.

March 10th

At risk of making a fool of myself, I'm going to post about the ending of the film. Even though everyone in my showing laughed at how cheesy it seemed (come on, it was 1946), I personally thought that it is a better ending than the written version for one simple reason: no one gets punished (aside from Avenant).
The simplicity and beauty of the ending is made much more obvious when you compare it to the book or the Disney version. The union of the two lovers is the reward. There doesn't need to be a big, grand wedding to show off to anyone, nor does there need to be punishments handed out to every transgressor. We really shouldn't care, at the end, about what happens to the evil sisters or the scoundrel brother. Perhaps their sister's happiness is punishment enough for them.

March 10 "Beauty and the Beast"

The introduction of the character Avenant in the Cocteau version was very interesting to me. The most intriguing part was the fact that the Beast looked like him in the end after turning into a man. In De Beaumont's version there is no other suitor for Belle, she simply learns to love the Beast and her love turns him back into a man. In Cocteau's film, Belle does love Avenant but doesn't marry him because he would take her away from her father. However, in the end she agrees to marry the Beast who has already taken her away from her entire family and the Beast ends up being an Avenant look-alike. I wonder if, in a way, Cocteau is saying that once Belle knew she could be away from her father and her family could take of itself, then she could let herself be married and love had little to do with it.
Audra Crosby

Assignment: 10 March 2009

Since many of you still need to watch the Cocteau film, posts will be due at midnight on Wednesday instead of Tuesday.

Pick one scene or element from Cocteau's "La Belle et La Bête" and compare it or contrast it with de Beaumont's version. You might pick something that interests you, that seems odd, or something that you missed in one version or the other, for example.

Pepelyouga (Serbia)

This is a pretty drastic retelling. The story begins with a clumsy mistake by Pepelyouga (Cinderella), where she drops her basket off of a cliff. Because of this, her mother is turned into a cow. The father remarries, and the step-mother challenges Pepelyouga to spin a top out of hemp. Pepelyouga almost fails, but is assisted by a cow who turns out to be her mother. The step-mother has this cow slaughtered, and Pepelyouga makes sure that the bones receive proper burial (this moment of the tale definitely borrows from The Juniper Tree).
Soon, she is ordered to clean up millet while her family goes to church. She receives help at the tree where her mother's bones rest, finds new clothes in a treasure chest, and goes to church, where she meets a prince (This adds a religious moral to the tale). This church service happens three times, and on the third time, she runs off too quickly and loses her golden slipper.
The ending is exactly the same as the other tales. The prince goes door to door, making women try on the golden slipper. However, what is interesting is that after Pepelyouga and the Prince get married, absolutely nothing happens to the step-family. No one is punished or rewarded other than Pepelyouga.

The Wicked Stepmother from Kashmir

I found “The Wicked Stepmother” (from Kashmir) on Ashliman’s folk site to be very interesting. In it, a husband and wife promise each other not to eat anything, lest they turn into animals. One day, the husband came home to find a goat in his house, and knew it must be his wife, so he kept it tied up in the yard. The husband remarried, and the new wife was mean to the children and would not feed them, so the goat told her children to tap her horns with a stick and food would fall down. The stepmother was confused about how the children were getting bigger and stronger, so she sent her one-eyed daughter to watch them for a day and note where they got any food. Then, the stepmother faked an illness and convinced the doctor to have the goat killed and eaten as a remedy. The children were instructed by the goat to gather her bones and bury them and then food would be provided, and it was. One day, one of the daughters was washing her face in a river when her nose ring fell out and a fish ate it. The Prince’s cook found the ring in the fish, and the Prince wanted its owner to find him. He was so enamored with her beauty that he married her and provided for her family.

I thought this version of Cinderella was so interesting because of its staggering differences from the version I was brought up with. First, the Prince does not have parties to meet his wife. He simply wants to return a nose ring to its owner, and happens to find her beautiful. He did not have any goal of finding a Queen. Second, the man’s first wife did not die, but rather was turned into an animal and then acted as the “fairy godmother.” In the versions I am used to, the wife dies and another person acts as fairy godmother. Third, there is not a rivalry between the children of the first wife and the child of the second wife. The only resentment happens between the new wife and the old children. The lack of evil step-sisters really surprised me. Overall, the differences between cultures leading to the extremely different Cinderella stories are what brought my attention to this tale.

The Baba Yaga February 24, 2009

I thought The Baba Yaga story from Ashliman's site was very interesting. In this Russian tale, There is no stepsister, only a stepmother who attempts to kill the girl by sending her to the woman's sister. The girl realizes that her step-aunt is a Baba Yaga, or a witch who likes to eat small children so she goes to her other aunt to get advice. This aunt gives her tools to escape the Baba Yaga by feeding the Baba Yaga's dogs and cats who would harm her, oiling doors that would squeak and alert the Baba Yaga that she is escaping, and other things of that nature. When the girl goes to the Baba Yaga like her stepmother makes her she does these things and escapes. She returns home and her father finds out what her stepmother attempted to do, shoots her dead, and the father and daughter live on and flourished.
I thought the absence of a stepsister was significant. That seems to focus the conflict between the stepmother and the girl. Another interesting thing was the lack of a prince figure. There was no love story in the tale unlike the other Cinderella tales we have read. A similarity between this tale and the others is that the stepmother is defeated in the end, but a new twist is that the father himself shot the woman and took a more active role in protecting his daughter.

Audra Crosby

Assignment: 24 February 2009

Look through the sites below and choose either an illustration(s) or a version of the Cinderella story which we have not read for class and respond to it.

• D. L. Ashliman’s folktale site
• Sur La Lune
• The Cinderella Project at the University of Mississippi

No posts this week

Good luck on your exams!

Zipes

In his article, “Breaking the Disney Spell,” Jack Zipes argues that the standards, functions, and effects of fairy tales has changed as the means for passing them on have changed. Specifically focusing on Walt Disney, Zipes claims that Disney has used his animated film fairy tales “to replace all [written] versions with his animated version and his cartoon is astonishingly autobiographical” (Tatar, 343). Walt Disney, coming from a poor family with a manipulative father, used his films to essentially brag about the success he had become and the hardships he had to endure. This reflected the shifts in society toward individualism.

I disagree with Zipes’ thesis for the most part. Although I do not know as much as Sahil about Walt Disney, but I believe that the connections Zipes made between Disney’s movies and his life could be coincidence. He has offered no proof that Disney intentionally altered fairy tales to create movies that reflect his own life. In fact, many of the ideas that reflect Disney’s life, for example the patriarchy and work-hard ethic were common experiences of the time. I would say that Disney’s films reflect the mentality of the American people in the time they were created rather than Walt Disney’s desire to promote himself to the entire population. His films are used, like oral and written fairy tales, to pass on values, morals, and ideas of that culture at that time.

Zipes is Wrong

Zipes puts forward the thesis that Disney practically ignored the communal purpose of fairy tales and created a technologically-assisted self-promoting vehicle for himself. I think this is all false.
For starters, I feel like telling a fairy tale (or any story for that matter) is much like a band covering a song. You have a basic original structure and idea, but the best musicians use them as vehicles for their own talent. A good comparison would be to think about “All Along the Watchtower” by Bob Dylan. When most people hear the name of the song, they instantly think about the Jimi Hendrix version. Sure, Bob Dylan wrote the lyrics and the basic idea for the song, but Jimi added his own touch and took the song to the next level. It's a lot flashier, sure, but that's because it is his nature to be flashy.
In the same way, Disney's cartoons are flashy, but that is the purpose. As much as they are telling the stories, they are also displays of Disney's talent and that of his animators. Furthermore, in complete opposition to Zipes's statement of communality, this flashiness is part of what attracts kids to his movies. Movies are not only a group activity, but outside of the theater they create a group identity. I remember every time a Disney movie came out when I was in grade school, everyone had to have the newest lunch box or backpack or action figures. At the same time, it was a great way to make friends. Disney movies really brought kids together, and drew them into the stories in the exact way that fairy tales have always done.

Zipes - February 03, 2009

In “Breaking the Disney Spell”, Jack Zipes argues that Walt Disney “employed animators and technology, not to enhance the communal aspects of narrative and bring about major changes in viewing stories to stir and animate viewers, but to enhance his own image and to get viewers to stop thinking about change, to return to his films, and to long nostalgically for long established patriarchal ideals.

I do not know if I fully agree or disagree with this thesis. There is evidence that points towards both sides of the argument. I believe Mr. Zipes is erring when he contends that the technology was not mean to enhance the communal aspect of fairy tales. Film, as a medium, promotes viewing in groups. Whether it is in a theater or at home, viewers generally watch a film with the company of others – especially “family films (a designation that animated features have achieved ever since Disney made them popular). So in that regards, I don’t think I necessarily agree with Mr. Zipes.

However, he makes a very strong case for Disney’s penchant for inserting himself into his movies as the hero. The evidence from Puss in Boots and Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is unarguably supporting Zipes’ theory. I would not label the similarities apparent in Disney’s life and these stories as coincidental simply because of Walt Disney’s personality. It promotes the viewing of these films as almost fantastical adaptations of his own life.

Zipes' Thesis 2/3/2009

Zipes' thesis is that Disney took the traditional fairy tale and subverted it using state of the art technology to be used as a tool to promote himself and his patriarchal ideals. In doing this Disney took away the "magic" and the community aspect of the fairy tales, and they became pale imitations of what they once were. The fairy tale became a way to keep the masses from thinking about change and instead long for the good old days of Disney.
I don't agree with Zipes' thesis. I think the fact the fact that children worldwide are taken to see Disney movies today with their parents makes it clear that community and family is still a large part of the fairy tale. It seems to me that Disney was simply following the Grimms' model of using fairy tales to teach children lessons. While Disney might have made the movies more patriarchal that was simply the way it was in America during that time.
Audra Crosby

Assignment: 3 February 2009

First, please identify the thesis of the Zipes article from this week’s reading. Then, respond to his thesis: do you agree or disagree, and why?

Don’t forget to post two comments by Wednesday at midnight.

Dahl/Hard Candy

Roald Dahl's versions of both “Little Red Riding Hood” and “The Three Little Pigs”, in my mind, extract humor from the contrast between roles of women today and the women that exist in fairy tales. In fairy tales like Little Red Robin Hood, the female characters tend to not have any logic-guided sentience. Instead, they exist only to present morals that explain the outcomes of their stupid mistakes.
The Little Red Riding Hood in Dahl's tales is strong and independent. She sees danger, and she takes care of the problem immediately. She is also cruel, as seen in “The Three Little Pigs,” where she kills both the Wolf and the Pig. The line about never trusting “young ladies from the upper crust” makes me think that Dahl is slightly bitter, and is attacking the materialistic, self-serving tendencies of some women.
Dahl's Little Red Riding Hood reminds me of a movie (that I have yet to see) called Hard Candy ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424136/ ). It's a movie about a girl (wearing a red hoodie) who meets a sexual predator online, and feigns foolishness to arrange a meeting at the man's house to ultimately torture him. Both of these stories illustrate a type of modern violence not present in fairy tales (guns and online predators), and both also seem to contain morals that suggest tackling problems head-on instead of avoiding bad situations altogether.

Dahl's Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf

I was most captivated by Roald Dahl’s version, called Little Red Riding Hood and the Wolf. When I researched it, I discovered that it was published in 1982 as part of a book called Revolting Rhymes. Dahl wrote the poem as a joke and did not even mean for it to be published. I believe that his target audience is children. This is due to the fact that his story rhymes, and the fact that it has a happy ending. The way he presents this classic fairy tale makes it entertaining, but also it conveys morals and lifestyles of the time. Because Little Red Riding Hood pulls a pistol out and kills the wolf, I know that during the time this was written, children were seen as more independent and capable of learning. Using Shavit’s method, I think that this tale was not used for amusement, like children or for education of children, but as a demonstration that children are now able to protect themselves.

January 27, 2009: The False Grandmother

The fairy tale "The False Grandmother" retold by Italo Calvino has similar characteristics to the story "The Story of Grandmother". "The Story of Grandmother" was first spread orally before Perrault's version of the tale, which was a time when Shavit says that children were viewed as "entertainment". The similarities between "The Story of Grandmother" and Calvino's version suggest that "The False Grandmother" also first appeared before children were viewed as having a separate identity from adults. The fact that the girl in "The False Grandmother" is resourceful and defeats the ogress on her own also suggests that the tale was told before children were considered different from adults. The story's references to cannibalism and defecation show that the tale was not used as a educational tool for children unlike the Grimms' version "Little Red Cap".
In both "The False Grandmother" and "The Story of Grandmother" the little girl is tempted by cannibalism. However, in "The False Grandmother" the little girl does not actually engage in cannibalism like the child in "The Story of Grandmother" does. This difference might show that the culture that created the tale "The False Grandmother" was not as concerned with food shortage as the society that told "The Story of Grandmother" because the little girl was not actually driven to participate in cannibalism. The shortness of the story and the repetitive language use suggest that the story was part of an oral tradition when stories were told simply to pass the time.

Audra Crosby

Little Red Riding Hood - January 27th

James Thurber’s version of “Little Red Riding Hood” clearly deviates from the versions of Perrault and the Brothers Grimm. While his version is far shorter and changes a lot of the story in terms of structure and style, the biggest difference is the ending. It supports a different moral to the story than those of Perrault and the Brothers Grimm. The ending, in where the young girl grabs a gun and shoots the wolf dead (a similar to ending to that of Roald Dahl), supports the moral that children are no longer as innocent and naïve as previously believed. They can be cunning and resourceful and, if you are a deceptive wolf, dangerous. Because of this, I believe that this story is predominantly intended for an adult audience. While everyone can find amusement in the twist ending, this story clearly is an attempt to tell adults that children are no longer the young, innocent, and naïve creatures that need to be fully protected from everything. They are capable of learning and adapting very well.

The fairy tale’s retelling by James Thurber (and Roald Dahl) clearly represents a culture that is more modern than those during the times of Perrault and the Brothers Grimm. In the time that Thurber’s version of the fairy tale was written, the status of the child, using Shavit’s method of analysis, had progressed beyond that of amusement and education, towards a more protective and respectful tone. The tone of Thurber’s writing argues that children were no longer seen as agents of amusement for the elite class, or naïve bodies needed to be educated, but as future adults capable of reason and cunning. It can be argued that there is some element of a protective tone in the sense that the young girl has a gun, a tool to protect herself with, by her side. However, I believe the predominant focus of the tale is to represent children as intelligent and clever beings capable of reason. I believe that specific nature of the culture of Thurber’s time influenced his re-telling of the classic fairy tale.

Dr. Sahil Patel

Assignment: 27 January 2009

Please respond to the following by midnight tonight. On Wednesday, read over the other posts in your sub-group and comment on at least two.

You have read Shavit's essay comparing the Perrault and Grimm versions of “Little Red Riding Hood.” Using Shavit's method, consider one of the other versions you read for this week (Dahl, Calvino, Thurber, Chiang Mi). With a little research (you may use Wikipedia, since this is not a research paper), outline who you think the audience is and what the fairy tale’s retelling says about the culture and time in which it was written.

Hansel and Gretel

Hansel and Gretel (2009) is the dark origin story behind the beloved fairy tale. The titular characters are ten and eight, respectively. Their mother, shown in flashbacks as a loving woman, died during the birth of Gretel. Their step-mother, younger and meaner, walks all over their father, who is in his early thirties (but looks about sixty).

One day, while going to the market, Hansel begins imagining a land of candy and sweets. One house in particular, made of gingerbread, stays in his mind. Before going to bed that night, he tells Gretel what he had imagined. He goes to sleep, and imagines the house again. Hansel and Gretel walk inside, only to be tormented by their step-mother. She is about to kill them, but he wakes up in a cold sweat.

The next morning, he tells the family what he had dreamed. To avoid being beaten, he changes the step-mother into an old witch. To seem more heroic (and to tell a good story), he also adds in a new ending, where he and Gretel foil the witch, and throw her in the oven. The parents smile at the ending, where the children come home with a pile of gold. After the story ends, their parents send them back to the market.

Hansel and Gretel

As we read in Tatar, Hansel and Gretel “does not so much stage a child’s fears about starvation, exposure, and abandonment as mirror the hard facts of the pre-modern era” (180). I believe the facts which are reflected in the store represent the poverty, family structures, and gender roles of that time. First, the fact that it was the mother’s idea to abandon her children in the forest shows how women were seen as evil and worse than men. Second, the family structures are portrayed by the woman of the household being a step-mother, which was common back then. Third, the poverty is seen through the inability to provide enough food for one small family of four. All these factors lead to the creation of a story like Hansel and Gretel.
To show the world that produced Hansel and Gretel, I would have the children be between eight and ten years old. This way, they are old enough to be capable of finding their way home, but young enough to still seem innocent and make the step-mother appear cruel. The step-mother and father would be in the thirty to forty year range. Finally, the witch, in keeping true to the tale would be very old, ideally around seventy. I would want to make sure that the children appeared innocent, and the step-mother appeared cruel through harsh facial characteristics.
The main problem that would feel into the story would be the famine and poverty. The parents could not provide enough food for their family, which adds tension to the family. The family, of course, is already experiencing tension due to the step-mother’s selfish and cruel ways. The father is torn between his children and his wife. And finally, the children have the problem of being abandoned and forced to survive on their own.

January 20, 2009 "Hansel and Gretel"

Since "Hansel and Gretel" and stories related to it deal almost exclusively with lack of food and hardship, there was obviously some sort of famine occurring at the time. The references to cannibalism make it seem that the famine had drawn on for a long period of time, and people were desperate.
If I were to make a movie about the world that created "Hansel and Gretel," the main characters would be around nine or ten. Hansel and Gretel would be the two oldest children of a large peasant family that was struggling to make ends meet. The supporting cast would consist of the large peasant family who were hard working and practical, and a richer, aristocratic family that had not been greatly affected yet by the famine.
The peasant family's struggle for money and food would be the main problem that fed the storyline. In order to survive the family would sell Hansel and Gretel to a rich family as servants. In return, the family would receive money to buy food, and also have less mouths to feed because Hansel and Gretel would be at the richer family's home.
The fairy tale could serve as the warnings that their parents gave Hansel and Gretel about how they should behave as servants: always be prepared like Hansel in the story with his pebbles, do not go looking for trouble like the children in the story did when they began to eat the house, and always keep your wits about you like Hansel in the tale by using the bone as his finger and Gretel did by pushing the witch into the oven. If the children obeyed their parents and behaved, they could return home someday like the fairy tale "Hansel and Gretel".

Audra Crosby

Assignment: January 20th, 2009

Stories such as Hansel and Gretel are really exaggerated and fantastical representations of what was occurring in real life during this time period. Times were incredibly dire and many families were suffering through severe economic hardships. I am sure, just like in the story, many families had a difficult time not only accessing food but divvying up reasonable shares for each member. So, any pitch for a movie that shows the world that produced Hansel and Gretel would require the main characters to be suffering through a similar situation. Setting, costuming, and other aspects of the mise-en-scene would be required to explain the perilous hardships befalling on the family. Every effort would be taken to create an atmosphere of despair that is present in the family in the story.

The characters themselves would need to be young children. To fully translate the differences between the desires of the adolescent and the mind of the adult, the actors would need to be young or middle-aged. The young actors would naturally be able to convey the innocence and curiosity present in the characters. The supporting actors, namely for the parents, should be middle-aged to represent wisdom that can be only attained through experience. And the witch, for comedic effect, because even drama needs some comedy, should be very old. Such a translation of this story onto film will help convey the purpose of teaching morals and maturity to children – at least according to Bettelheim.

The constant struggle to survive during times of such hardship would be the best backdrop for a possible Hansel and Gretel film. A strong portion of the beginning of the film should be devoted to the daily grind and difficulties the family has to go through. This can range from the parents finding it difficult to purchase and accumulate food to showing incredibly small portions of meals on the family members’ plates. Furthermore, the stepmother’s traditional position as a terrible and atrocious member of the human race should be pursued. It would create an interesting and tense dynamic within the family as they both try to feed each other, and in the stepmother’s case, rip it apart.

Sahil Patel

Assignment: 20 January 2009

Please respond to the prompt below by tonight (Tuesday) at midnight. You should place your response in a new post, rather than using the “comment” function. Later this week, you will be able to check back and see featured entries on our main page, The Philosopher’s Stone.

Keene imagines the world that created the fairy tales we read today in The Juniper Tree. Considering this Ur-world, full of poverty, fear, ignorance, and a need for storytelling, imagine what factors would lead to a story like Hansel and Gretel.

Pretend you want to pitch a movie that shows the world that produced Hansel and Gretel. How old would the main characters be? What would your supporting cast look like? And perhaps most importantly, what sorts of problems would feed into the Hansel and Gretel story? Use the week's readings to guide your thinking; consider the themes which appear in the various fairy tales from England, France, and Germany.

Darnton

I found the Darnton article to be the more enlightening of the two. The Bettelheim article seems to suppose a lot. To me, it feels like he is almost suggesting that without fairy tales, a child would learn nothing from his parents. It sounds like there is some natural desire and need for these stories, which just rubs me wrong. He also makes it sound as though the stories are absolutely crucial in the development of children.
When I was a kid, my book of fairy tales was a slightly demented one called The Stinky Cheese Man, which was a collection of the classic fairy tales, but filtered through what could be best described as a Ren & Stimpy mentality. However, I've grown up and turned out quite normal.
The Darnton article focuses more on oral tradition and history, which to me is more accurate. These stories are not static, but instead change as the storytellers see fit. There is nothing absolute in these, and they act more as a cultural barometer than a secondary Bible.

Sorry for the late post. I thought the assignments were going to be announced in class! My mistake.

Bettelheim

I found Bettelheim’s “The Struggle for Meaning” to be more productive in helping me think about fairy tales as more than just children’s entertainment. I think this is because Darnton’s essay was about the oral tradition of fairy tales and the adult content they originally had. This argument did not help me as much because it focused on fairy tales in the past. On the other hand, Bettelheim presented a view that I had never considered, and one that is relevant to fairy tales in the present time. His argument was that fairy tales provide children with access to deeper meaning, arouse their curiosity, and stimulate their imaginations. Additionally, fairy tales can teach children “about the inner problems of human beings, and of the right solutions to their predicaments in any society” (Tatar, 270). This helps me most to think about fairy tales as more than just children’s entertainment because it presents a latent function, one that I had never thought about before. Fairy tales play an extremely important role in the lives of children by teaching them about the difficulties of life and making moral decisions.

I found Darnton's "Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose" to be more productive in helping me think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment. Bettelheim's article spoke of the benefits of fairy tales for teaching children about life. According to Bettelheim, fairy tales are the only literature for children that teaches them how to confront problems and emerge from difficult times with a sense of growth and maturity. Darnton's article, on the other hand, introduced the history of the fairy tale as part of an oral tradition among adults. Darnton's explanation showed that fairy tales had been transmitted across countries and altered until they were fit for children's entertainment. By including examples of the original fairy tales that contained the adult issues of rape, cannibalism, and child murder, Darnton showed clearly that fairy tales were not merely a form of child entertainment but had a long and sometimes bloody history.

Sahil Patel - Assignment for 1/13/09

I personally find Robert Darnton’s “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose” more productive in helping me to think about fairy tales as more than entertainment for children. Darnton explores different versions of classic fairy tales and the method of oral tradition that led to these tales. The entire essay is more of an anthropological discussion. He examines these stories as a way to understand and analyze peasant traditions and culture from where these stories come from. These stories are no longer just tales to entertain children, but a means to examine the mentality and culture of the speaker who would have passed this story on orally. What would bring a speaker to tell a version of “Little Red Riding Hood” that features cannibalism, striptease, and a disastrously negative ending for the protagonist? Unlike other articles that use the text itself to determine the mental condition of the writers during this time period, Darnton instead focuses on the culture of the time that would have allowed for such a grim and dark tale to be fodder for entertainment. Because Darnton chooses to look at these tales through an anthropological lens, they become less of a children's story that could be psychoanalyzed, and more of a text that could be used to understand illiterate and poor cultures centuries ago. For me, it immediately validates these stories’ usefulness as texts as historical documents deserved to be studied and analyzed.

- Sahil Patel

Assignment: 13 January 2009

Please respond to the question below by midnight tonight.

Which of the following essays do you find more productive in helping you to think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment? Why?

• Robert Darnton's “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose”
• Bruno Bettelheim “The Struggle for Meaning,”

(both in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales)